Karrine Steffans AKA SuperheadIf you lay down with dogs you are liable to get fleas
Birds of a feather flock together
Growing up I heard these mantras over and over. At the time I hated hearing things like this. I remember thinking my mother and her friends were snobs.The truth was mother and her friends had standards.
In today's African America I wonder if we collectively have lost our standards. I wonder why we allow ourselves to consort with, dare I say it, trash.
I am referring to African Americans who make clear that they mean us harm. I'm talking about the R.Kellys and Damon Wayans' and D.L. Hugleys and Karrine Steffans' and too many rappers to name.
Why or how is it that R.Kelly, a man who has been indicted on charges of child pornography and harming a Black child is on tour and most of those in attendance are African Americans? Why don't these thousands of people who are willing to shell out good money care about the teenage girl that R.Kelly is accused of harming?
Michael Jackson was accused of harming a White child. He now has no career, is rumored to be broke and has been banished to Bahrain.
What has happened that this man, R.Kelly, can go on tour all over this nation and meet not even protests.
Why aren't we outraged that ABC is in talks with Damon Wayans to create a new show for their network? Recently Damon Wayans, as a guest on the ABC show The View, Said he agreed with Don Imus that the women of the Rutgers Basketball team where Nappy-headed hoes.
Why isn't Damon Wayans persona non grata in Black America? We were outraged when a White man said it, we wanted him banished from radio, so why no outrage now about the same words from a Black man?
I know that 99.99% of those reading this are probably outraged. Plenty of bloggers have written about this issue. Why hasn't it caught fire?
I am wondering about the larger community. I'm wondering if we collectively, African Americans, have so little regard for ourselves that we allow ourselves to be victims of a public kind of domestic abuse time and time again and don't try to protect ourselves.
D.L. Hugley recently had a cable television special. This after he appeared on the tonight show and said that he too thought the Rutgers women were nappy-headed hoes. Why aren't we asking for his banishment?
Although some like Gina at What About Our Daughters? did protest D.L. Hugley. Brava Gina!
The only reason I can muster is that we don't have standards. We are willing to allow anyone with a reasonable amount of melanin to say whatever they want about us with no repercussions.
Why haven't we shunned these people? Why haven't we sent a clear message that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we are outraged when a White man attacks us, then we Should also be outraged when A Black man attacks us.
Karrine Steffans appeared in Essence Magazine for goodness sake. This is a woman who has made a career out of being, as the old folks would say, a floozy. I know that Essence is no longer ours but where is the outrage.
Call it snobbery or whatever you like, we need to get back to a place where we will reject the presence of individuals that mean the group harm.
We cannot afford to lay with dogs, we will all get fleas.
Do you agree? Do we need to make a "white" list and begin "Whitelisting" people?
28 comments:
Whitelist - I like that.
I can honestly say that Karrine Steffans along with other reasons, is why I have not renewed my subscription to ESSENCE. Don't plan on it either. Just don't know what happened to that magazine...
Back to your Whitelisting ?, I say YES WE SHOULD. WITH OUR DOLLARS, SUPPORT! HIT EM WHERE IT HURTS! I think that is Gina's slogan: STOP FUNDING FOOLISHNESS!(BTW, Gina if you read this, I'm not trying to steal your slogan-I know you're an attorney :-)) If we do, they will definitely stop being foolish, or be foolish and broke.
It boggles the mind how some Black people will refuse to label a turd for exactly what it is. As long as it is rich and already popular, it is justifiable.
The fact that R Kelly still has an audience and Karrine Steffans actually has fans is a mystery to me.
I don't get my kicks judging others but some things are simply reprehensible--R Kelly's child abuse, for one.
And as far as Karrine is concerned, I don't fault her for the things she did. I can't judge that. But the fact that she is being held as a representative of Black womanhood is simply twisted.
Great post!
I'm with you...R Kelly gets NO play in our house or on our radio. I can't believe people are actually supporting this pervert/child molestor.
DL Hugley -- why? It's just so not funny.
Karinne Steffans -- She really disappoints me. I'm with DMB, who am I to judge....But Ok, you made some bad decisions in your life...repent and move on! Yet she supports what she did.
What message is she sending to our young females? *smh*
indeed! i don't understand how r. kelly still has a career either. yes, progressive thinking black people should "whitelist" , as you say, those who are a discredit to the group. whitelist is awesome, btw! b/c everything white is not right...
MDC,
This frustrates me too. For instance, I made the point over at WAOD that we often hear how the ills of the black community are the fault of the middle class for "abandoning" our roots, but where is the outrage at Irv Gotti who admitted on last week's NBC series on black women that he is willing to line his pockets with money spent "entertaining" the masses with minstrelsy and denigrating images of black women. Gotti even implied that he would let his daughter in on the act. Also on the NBC panel was a video model whose name I thankfully have forgotten. She also dismissed how her "career" affects black women by saying "I thought of it as just a job." Where is the ire for these folks?
Goldenah, I don't buy that black people don't know about these folks' misdeeds. In many cases we know and support them. When R. Kelly made one of his early appearances in a Chicago court, black women brought buses of CHILDREN to stand outside and support him...on a SCHOOL DAY! WTF is wrong with some people?
Aw, now you guys have me all fired up.
I have no idea why anyone would want Karrine Steffans on the cover of their magazine. Should we be at all interested in what she has to say? Should she be a role model to anybody? She got popular by sleeping with a whole lot of entertainers. Period. That's really all there is to her. I even read her book. I fully expected that by the end it would show how she has done a complete 180 and saw her actions for what they were and whatnot...but I did not find that. I think she's still screwed up in the head so we really just need to stop paying attention to her.
Y'know, it occurs to me. We have a family of blogs right here that reach a bunch of like-minded folks. Why DON'T we start and maintain a "Dead to Me" list of people actively working against the success of the black (and human) race. The list could be cross-posted on several of our blogs. Our stance could be that we encourage readers not to support the guilty parties with money or attention until they atone for their crimes.
I definitely concur with most of what you are saying and I feel you when you say that you thought your family were snobs when they would feed you those old mantras. I thought mine were too but notw as I'm getting older, it's all making sense. There are certain people you don't want to be associated with because of the way they choose to live their life.
We have standards, I think our collective voice just isn't so collective is all.
http://thestarkfiles.blogspot.com/
(stop by sometime)
Lisa,
A Black list is a good list to me. (lol)
Randi,
I stopped reading Essence when Time, Inc. bought it. It's now just another vehicle for Time to make money. The whole philosophy of the magazine has changed.
DMB,
I don't think it's about judging, I think it's about recognizing the enemy. Both Karrine and RPerv have proven themselves to be the enemy.
Sage,
My problem with Karrine is she made a big deal of her being abused. Then she just changed the whole marketing approach, now it’s just about gossiping.
Browngirl,
Everything white is definitely not right or pure. I hope people hurry up and speak out.
GoldenAh,
The Black media? What's that?
And who doesn't know who DL Hugley and Karrine Steffans and Damon Wayans are? I don't get that.
But I agree that to some if it's not an attack by a White person it doesn't rate on the outrage meter.
Tami,
Gotti and those of his ilk will say anything to continue making money off of demeaning images. We have to cut people like him off from above and stop spending money with the conglomerates that back him.
I agree with you in your response to GoldenAh.
Brianna,
I read her first book. I will admit that she fooled me. I thought that that book was supposed to be a cautionary tale. But now she has written another book, which I don't plan to read, that is just gossip and sexual exploits.
Essence lost its soul when it was sold to Time, INC.
Tami,
That’s a great idea. Except, where do we draw the line. I think that if you dig deep enough you will start to find that even some of the people that you don't deem enemies, are consorting with the enemy in some way. For instance would Keyshia Cole be on the list? She is now on tour with RPERV.
See what I mean. If we can work out details like that then I'm all for it.
Afrodite,
Unfortunately sometimes you just have to cut people loose for your own peace of mind.
Hey MDC,
I think the problems you are seeing is rests in the need to answer the following questions.
1) What does it mean to be Black or African American?
2) What is the morality of the Black or African American community? How is SPECIFICALLY and in DETAIL defined? What is considered good and bad Black or African behavior?
3) Is there such a thing as a Black or African American community?
4) Are Blacks or African Americans responsible for knuckle heads who also claim to be Black or African American?
5) How do you excommunicate a Black or African American person when their morality does not meet the criteria of question 2?
6) Do liked minded Blacks or African Americans move into the same neighborhoods in order to have a community and raise their children together?
Without answering the above questions it becomes hard to try to galvanize people. That is to say when people don't have a defined moral goal it is hard to keep people focused on what is wrong and right. As Merlin's statement in the 1981 Excalibur movie, For it is the doom of men that they forget.
Look at the Imus situation. Most Blacks or African Americans would consider racist statements by so called "white" people wrong. There has been a historical precedent for this to be moral point of African Americans and Blacks. The idea that there are certain statements and actions that when done by white people said actions and statements are racist. Yet, when it comes to internal issues, like you are talking about, the lines are very fuzzy with various African American ethnic groups. The N-Word is a good example. Some say it is okay for a Black person to use it, but not okay for a white person. That kind of logic becomes problematic because it leads into, it is not okay for Imus to talk about the Rutger's Basketball team like he did, but is okay for DL Hughley and Damon Wayans. Yet, going back before Imus DL Hughley and Damon Wayans both said similar things to Imus in MANY of their acts and roles going back several years.
Without having a clear cut moral foundation, it is hard to express to people why African Americans like Superhead, R. Kelly, Snoop, Damon Wayans, etc. are all doing wrong. You say they are wrong, but should another African American follow your opinion and not the opinion of those who support Superhead, R. Kelly, Snoop, Damon Wayans, etc? This is where I believe your previous posts on similar topics kick, especially concerning the Post Black phase. Maybe this is the Post Black reality, when anyone can act any way they want and then claim it is Black.
Consider the following. When the Wayans movie Scary Movie came out, there was a scene in the movie that was so raunchy that the Wayan's parents, Howell and Alviya Wayans criticized it. From what I read their father walked out half way through the movie. See more about that here and here
One more thing. The bottom line here is money. The people you mentioned are doing what they are doing because there is money it it. The people who are against them are more than likely not supporting them as it is. Yet, they have a fan base who supports them, not made up of the bloggers who are commenting on this post, but there are people who are WILLINGLY making the career of some sick people. Just speaks to society.
So why would Superhead parade herself as a freak? Because there is money in doing that. Why would Damon Wayans say what he said? Because there is money in it. Just look at Imus he has a new job, and maybe even a bigger paycheck for his actions. Why? Because there is money in it. This goes back to what I was saying about morality. Often there is not a lot of money in the Hollywood/Music industries for morality. Thus immoral people of all races and cultures flock to it.
Something's amiss here. I hear time and time again how it IS BAD the lyrics and that we must defund the foolish, but SOMEBODY's supporting it.
Either we are not speaking for the mainstream or many may do double talk?
MDC,
I love the idea and will happily contribute names to the list, but...
I think we have a better chance at promoting and pushing black folks that are doing positive things instead of banning black folk that are doing negative things. Black folk apparently do not have the discipline to leave negative black folk alone.
Ebony just gave crazy-ass Michael Jackson a major spread!!!! Why? What has he done for black folk lately?
Why are black women buying Superhead's book anyway? Why are black women watching Charm School and I love NY? Why are black women still buying Essence?
Black folk are always the most forgiving of our own. Look at us and O.J. Look at us and Mike Tyson. Look at us and Kobe Bryant. Not only we are supporting R. Kelly, we are bashing the victim!
We as black people really struggle with holding each other accountable. It's so sad.
My husband has been a fan of Kels since he came across him singing on the El years ago (we're from Chicago). His current thinking is "innocent until proven guilty" and he claims he separates the music from the unproven actions of the man. We have argued to no end about this and he's agreed to not play any R. Kelly in the house/around the kids.
I think it's hard because we are not thinking about what impacts others. We think in a rampantly individualistic manner and we want to have our cake and eat it to.
The other thing is that we each have the ability to influence and motivate those around us. We can each start a movement in our own sphere of influence.
Tony Stark,
I think that we do have a collective voice but it's split in two.
Ehav,
"Do liked minded Blacks or African Americans move into the same neighborhoods in order to have a community and raise their children together?"
I think the blogisphere is an example of when like minded African Americans seek out each other. I don't think we have to live next door to each other. But we have to have viable ways of communicating to create or be apart of a community.
Do you agree?
And your right about the bottom line, that's why I think it's important that those of us who are bothered by these things take a stand. Demeaning Black people cannot be someone’s way of making a living. We have to stop that.
Miriam,
Something is amiss. There are lots of people supporting these people. Mainly big corporations who make money promoting them
Professor Tracey,
A positive or support list sounds great. I think a positive stance against these sort of people will work well.
I agree about holding other Black people accountable, I hope that we bloggers can change that!
Liz,
I'm glad you and your husband were able to reach a compromise.
I'm hoping that if our community of bloggers continues to push these issues it will start movements.
We have a new media and that means new influence, we just have to use it.
Hey MDC,
In terms of community, where I disagree with you is in the point that a virtual community can only go so far. Real communities, that stand strong, do so best when they they are next door neighbors. When their kids do play together in the same neighborhood, when they experience life cycle events together. When they either share common values or develop common values.
For example, if something was to happen to me where I need community support the blogsphere can only go so far with that. I am thousands of miles away from most of the people I meet on the blogsphere.
What I believe is happening is that there is a push, by corporations and pop imagery to reform the meaning of the word community. Get people out of their communities and make their kids think that pop culture is better. When people don't have communities they spend more money on the outside
I see here in Israel when communities of ancient Jewish cultures are having children who run away from their culture in order to chase after pop idols. As I mentioned before I know a number of Ethiopian Israelis who imitate the rap/r&b they see on TV at the expense of walking away from their own culture. It is possible that a semi-ancient Ethiopian Jewish culture will die out in about 20 years or more and be replaced with a psuedo western pop culture.
It first started when kids left their communities and did not move into like minded communities. Sometimes the best role models are the ones you can actually see and interact with in your neighborhood within walking distance.
Ehav,
I just don't think in today’s fractured America we can rely on building brick and mortar communities. I share your interest in them in fact I'm doing research in to intentional communities now. But realistically we have to use technology to build like minded communities because I just don't think that we will go back to the day (en mass) of having real next door neighbor kind of communities.
Hey MDC,
I am not saying it will happen. I am saying that certain things won't happen the further some people get away from physical communities. There are though still such communities, even amongst some African American ethnic groups.
Many Jews still move to areas that are either predominately Jewish or have what we as Jews need to be connected. If you go to New York for example, even when religious Jews move they move to areas where they can walk to a synagogue and to stores that sell kosher food. Many Israelis in America, even when they aren't religious, try to remain physically close to communities of Israelis or Jews. The same holds true for many Hatian Americans, Ethiopian Americans, etc. I also know of some African Americans who moved to certain areas in order to build communities.
It depends on the need of a community. For example, if a family felt the need for their kids to live in neighborhood where their kids will play with kids of a like background they move to areas where they can find this. If it isn't important to them then they don't. Yet, there is no virtual way to have kids grow up together.
All I am saying is the virtual world can only go so far. I agree with you that on some level connections can be made, but I don't know if I would go as far as to say that they are communities. That's just me, I could be wrong.
Hey MDC,
One last thing before I go back to bed. In terms of community. You mentioned that you don't see it going back to bricks and mortar type of communities. What I am saying is that it can go back, it already has for some. Just look at me I, and others like me, moved to Israel for this very reason. Many of us left high paying jobs in the US in order to come to a place that seems to be the tension center of the world. Many of us came because we believe in something that we can only find here. Many of us came because something spiritual seemed to be calling us here. Many of us came for reasons that we can articulate. We are in turn creating/recreating an Israeli culture that hasn't existed since about 500 BCE on some level and 70 CE on another level.
What happens when the blogs reach the limit of their reach? What happens when the voices of the ignorant or the hateful are heard louder and stronger than the tolerant and the loving? What happens when all the good people feel adequate in physically distancing themselves and all the bad people are forming physical communities? What happens when whole bad communities take their physical community and put it in places more easily accessible than the blogspher?
You should read my recent posts about Racism and Antisemitism. I believe that the physical isolation issues are what hurts many causes. Especially since I believe that real change can only come from the children. They are the future where I believe the most work should be done. Imagine this. Lets say that you have 20,000 children and you can pattern about 100 towards morality. Lets say that 100 moves into a common physical neighborhood. They marry within the group, and they have children raised in the group. Lets say that now from those 100 they become 400 because of the family factor. Lets say that their children go out and repeat the process in other places. The process being:
1) Move into a like minded community.
2) Marry like minded people.
3) Raise moral children.
4) Help people who are on the edge.
5) Bring those people back from the edge and into the community.
Now take away the community part. I.e. the common location, marriage of like minded people, children of like minded moral values having a common familiar and culture experience and you have many of the African Americans and also some of the Jews in America.
All of this often takes a choice and a sacrifice. I sacrificed a number of things when I moved to Israel. I gave up on many of my dreams, and things I thought I wanted to be in life. I did it because I felt that there is a need for a change in this part of the world. I felt that there was a need for a change inside of me. That could only come from me being on my own home turf. As much as I love blogging and the net, I don't fill that void from the virtual world.
So maybe, some people have to sacrifice something and move into areas where they can have a strong and affective community. Maybe that community can also become an affective and organized voting block. Many ethnic groups such as Jews, Koreans, Chinese, Latinos, etc. have done this affectively in America by having communities that cater to their needs and are sources of political activism. Not all of them have to live there, but having a base is important.
Once again look at Israel as an example. Most of the Jewish specific religious articles come directly from Israel. Most Jews wouldn't buy certain religious items if they were made in lets say India. That is because Israel for us is our national and spiritual base. If antisemitism in the world becomes so bad, Jews have a place to flee to. And if we need to fight the antisemites we can at least do so on our own home turf.
That's all I am saying. Okay now I am going to bed. No really.
ehav,
First, I've been reading tour posts on racism. They have been very interesting.
My dream would be to create a community. I may have the resources to do it. But what about those that don't? Those are the ones that really need a community.
I really like some of the concepts of Kibbutz. I really want to create an intentional community but that is a selfish thing. I'm not sure that that will help the larger community.
Hey MDC,
Thanks for checking out my posts. I would love to hear your opinions on them. You are really increasing the respect I already had for with these recent series of posts. It looks like you have found the way for your blog, that you were wondering about a few months ago.
I have one last one that I am going to post about Fighting Back. Quite a bit of it deals with things that I have been writing on your blog, so you get a free preview. (smile)
In terms of community building. I think it is not about those who can't build one it is about those who can. I believe that everyone needs some kind of community. We all have personal, emotional, and physical needs that can only be met with physical contact with others.
You may have read my posts about the community I grew up in and how much it hurt me when we left it. It wouldn't have been so hard if we had moved into a similar community somewhere else. Yet, I lost something that day we left. I lost a vital piece of who I was created to be when we moved. I also made some horrible choices due to the isolation I felt as a teenager in a strange environment. I lost something that I spent many years searching for. I have it now here in Israel. So what I lost in Kansas City has given me a greater gain here in Israel.
There are rich people who get money and isolate themselves in the hills, and never come down from their perch. There are unhappy wealthy people who need community, but they either don't know it or don't want it.
I believe if you want to help the masses you have to start small and help those closest to you. Your reach can only go so far. Yet, what if you were married with lets say 12 kids? (I know I am pushing it, but work with me here.) What if your husband, who we will call Jacob son of Isaac, had a certain reach? What if you combined your reaches? What if your 12 children went out and began to take the values you and Jacob taught them into the world? Sound familiar? It should that is what Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did. Just look at the affect it had on the world, and not just the Jewish world. More than likely Abraham never knew that the steps of faith he was taking in Mesopotamia thousands of years ago would affect the world the way it has.
You have to be careful of trying to do to much to soon. Sometimes people are ready for immediate change, and many times they are not. As with the Oprah post you have to look at the bigger picture. Much of the change you want to see won't happen in our lifetime. Much of the negativity we see now didn't start in our lifetime. It had roots in events taking place before we were even born.
Yet, MDC, what if you could build something now with what you do have that could alter history? What if 20 or 100 years from now people will look back and see the community you and others built as a shining example of what they could be? What if you built a community and went out to show people how you did it? If they listen great, if they don't move on to the others who will listen.
How do I know that something like this can work? Because my mother is doing it right now. She has a horse ranch and she brings predominately young girls from disadvantaged homes to her ranch. They learn how to train horses. They also get to hear speeches and lectures from positive people in and outside of my mother's immediate community. My mother left Kansas City in order to get back to the community she originally came from. She felt that she had to be a shining example to the children who were on the verge of being lost there. While others were talking about the problems from a distance, she actually went out and did something locally about it. Now she is being contacted by people outside of her local community because of the success of the program.
When she was in the planning stages I gave her advice and stories from my experiences here in Israel. Because my reach is different than hers, she has learned from me just as I have learned from her. When I began to make it known that I was going to move to Israel to follow my dreams, she wrote me a letter of how she knew when I was born that I really didn't belong to her, that I belonged to God. She said that when I was born she prayed that God would lead me to whatever place I supposed to be. A simple one page note changed how I viewed my role of being in Israel. Now that I am here, I have to live my life accordingly.
One of the reasons I comment on AA blogs about my experience as a Jew is because I believe that there is something that could be learned from it. I also believe that European Jews especially can learn from my experience in the African and AA cultures I have been around.
Ehav,
I will very soon share my thoughts with you on your recent posts. I assure you that they have been enlightening.
I think you make valid points about community and doing what you can. I think that a lot of the angst that I have been feeling lately is me wanting to understand how I can quench my own thirst for community while keeping the larger picture in mind. I don't want an isolationist community.
That sounds like a great thing that your mom is doing. I'm sure those girls will never forget it.
I hope that you will post about the intentional communities there in Israel. I would really be interesting in hearing about them, Kibbutz, etc.
Hi Tami,
I know I'm a bit late to this one but still had to get my word in!
The R Kelly thing has incensed me for years!!! Same (to a certain extent) with Mike Tyson. Regardless of what you think of the US judicial process, he is still a CONVICTED rapist who left prison to alot of support and back slaps. WTF??!
As others have commented, alot of it comes down to $£$£$£. That and an idolisation for popular culture and those black clowns who have "made it". Seems like you can do anything - from dress like a porn star to sleep with children to abuse/insult your own people - if you are popular enough. If you're living in a big house and wear kriss clothes and drive a Bentley then it seems all is forgiven.
I can't think about this kind of thing too much because it makes me feel so angry and sick and helpless that I literally don't know what to do.... *sigh*
Great post though, thanks for sharing.
Oh my days - SO sorry for calling you Tami! I had just finished watching something very emotional she had posted on her blog and she was on my mind...
Hey MDC,
The only isolationist communities I know of are the ones in the hills, with chains and fences that no one but them can enter. The whole point of a community is not to be isolated, unless they want to be, but to foster and grow from a common goal. For example, a blogging community is only closed off if he people who are part of it keep it to themselves. As I mentioned before, if you have something that the world needs being in a community is not something that should stop you from sharing it with the world.
Just look at what I mentioned about my mother. Just look at me. I live in a community thousands of miles away from most of the people I meet in the blogsphere. Yet, I am here posting on your site and you live in California. I live in Israel. Do the math on that.
You can only be as isolated as you want to be. In terms of the people who need a community, but can't afford to build one. Consider the fact that it would be hard for you to show them what a community is if you yourself don't have one. Sometimes community building takes sacrifice and hard work. Sometimes it takes future planning, and giving up some of our hopes and dreams.
Now I am not talking about joining one of those insane cult like places. What I am talking about is people being centrally located so that their kids can play together and know each other. So that friendships can be fostered. That is what I saw as a kid. We were not all the same, and everyone didn't like each other. Yet, when it came down to it we wee a community. I remember the barbecues that you could walk to. I remember the childhood neighborhood games. I remember the adventures. I remember visiting other kids and knowing their parents. I remember inviting friends from other neighborhoods over and such.
Where I live now I see kids playing together on the Sabbath while their fathers are in the synagogue. I see kids walking around with their mothers. On Yom Kippur the streets are filled with families, and kids riding bikes in the streets. I see families inviting other families over for lunch or dinner. I have disappeared from the public to deal with issues alone, and had people asking my cousins about me.
That is what I am talking about and the fact that I am sharing it with you and others means that it doesn't have to remain within you unless you want it to.
Shelly,
It makes me angry and sad that these people are accepted by the community at large.
I feel that if we value ourselves we wouldn't even think of allowing these people to continue to flourish.
That whole Mike Tyson thing was just weird. It doesn't seem that anyone took that rape conviction seriously.
Do you think mike would have walked back into his career after jail if he had been convicted of raping a White woman?
Ehav,
You're right. I think I expect people to be on my level no matter what. So even in terms of community I guess I expect my vision of community to be everyone’s.
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